You EPIC'ers seemed to be really thinking this morning as we talked about the new heavens and the new earth. The looks on your faces said to me that most of you were processing a lot, maybe even a whole new picture of what eternity is going to be like. Let me know any thoughts or questions you have on today's topic.
Also, I would appreciate your feedback on how quiet you guys are at times. I made the standard joke of "Is this thing on?" this morning, but often when I ask questions, you don't have anything to say. What's going on? How I am missing yo?. I wondered if you're not used to interacting with your Sunday School teacher or if I've done something to get off on the wrong foot with you. Please let me know any input you have on why things are so quiet. You can post anonymously; so, I encourage you to be honest. I want my teaching in EPIC to work well for you.
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5 comments:
First off, I really enjoyed the talk this morning. This is something I haven't studied and would like to no more about. I do have a couple of questions.
#1. In verse 21:4 it states that there will be no mourning, crying, or pain. If we are able to remember past events (you gave the example of Bathsheba) will those feelings in verse 4 not accompany the memories of past events?
#2. You had said the city referred to is actually the Bride of Christ. What are the measurements for that are found in verses 21:16-17. Also in verses 22:1-3 it talks about the river of life running through the streets of the city. Now is this a different city than what is referred to earlier?
#1: Good question. My biggest problem with not being able to remember past events, as many people say, is that it pretty much wipes out our memory of Christ's work. How can we worship Christ deeply in heaven if we don't remember the pain and sorry he saved us out of? I just don't see God wiping our hard drives being consistent with his desire to tell the big, big story of redemption.
I wonder if part of the problem with thinking about memories of the past is that we do so from our perspective in this fallen world. When I think of painful things now, I'm often worried that more pain is coming. Memories of the death of my mom and dad worry me because I'm scared of the thought of losing my wife or my sons. Memories of the pain I felt from a joint disorder I had for 15 years worry me because I'm afraid that it's going to come back and I'll feel more pain. What will it be like to think or talk about painful memories in Heaven, where we can't experience pain or sorrow again. (Does that make any sense? I've never really thought down this road before.) Also, then won't we have a clearer perspective of how the pain and sorrow of this life were worked by God into the good of his Big Redemtion Story.
#2: I think almost all of Revelation 21 & 22 is symbolism. So, the measurements aren't physical measurements of a physical city. (This helps, doesn't it, because a cube-shaped city sounds pretty weird, doesn't it?) Instead, the numbers themselves are rich in symbolism. The length is 12,000. That immediately makes me think of the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles. It's a cube to show that the church is perfect; in other words, not a single one of the elect is missing. So, we're seeing a symbolic description of the completed church from the Old Testament and New Testament. Same for the 144 cubits thickness. That's pretty clear to me 12 x 12, or yet another picture of the whole church.
For the river, again, think symbolism. The city is the church. The river flows from the throne of God and the Lamb. The river is the water of life. So, our life in eternity still flows God; the life in us then will still be sourced in him. We won't be independent of him, due to our perfection; instead, we'll be totally dependent on him, drawing life from him every day, as the ancients had to go to the river every day for their life.
It's usually quiet. IT's not you! You're doing a wonderful job! :) Thanks for your willingness to talk with us. We're learning and enjoying it.
I think people are quiet for a mixture of reasons- but since I am not quiet, I know I could be totally off! 1) sleepiness, 2) some may be more processors than quick thinkers about such a deep topic, 3) some may not be interested- to no fault of yours, and they may not want to admit it- and please don't cater to this crowd, but to those who do care 4) some don't want to be the first to respond, so they wait, 5) some fear what others may think of their response, and 6) some are just naturally ones who will hardly say something in a group- our life group is similar at times-even in a smaller group. Now, the group did not choose the topic for the quarter (I could be wrong in this), so when people don't ask for it, there are going to be some who will try to learn about it no matter what and take interest, and those who are not there for this. Maybe someone can agree or give more and/or different insight to what I have said.
Isn't sin wiped clean? All is cleared away. We may know those in Heaven from our stay here, but in a way we cannot fully know now. How we perceived events and those we knew during our stay on earth will be completely changed at His second coming.
Our understanding of Christ's work will be complete also. We will be complete. He is making His Bride now to have no more spot or wrinkle. He wants us to know joy fully and one who has taken his "captive bride" to his home. That "JOY" will overcome all sorrow.
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